Welp, here we go again.
Kevin Harvick’s dominating Las Vegas win was ruled encumbered on Wednesday. Technically it wasn’t “encumbered” because NASCAR got rid of that term in the offseason — but the result is the same.
The No. 4 car’s rear window was not rigid at all times, as the rulebook states it must be, and the rocker arm panel extension was the wrong kind of metal (it is supposed to be aluminum).
So Harvick lost all seven playoff points he earned at Vegas. On top of that, the team also lost car chief Cheddar Smith for two races, Rodney Childers lost $50,000 from his wallet and Harvick lost 20 points in the standings.
That’s a lot of losing, but the team kept the win. NASCAR tradition, right? That’s what they say, anyway. So SHR will cash the check and display the trophy alongside all the others, and Harvick will go down as the winner in the history books.
Normally, this is the part where I would argue Harvick should be stripped of the win. An illegal car should not be able to keep a victory, and it looks bad when NASCAR allows this to happen.
When I asked readers about this last September, most agreed.
Poll: Should NASCAR take the win away if the car is found to be illegal?
— Jeff Gluck (@jeff_gluck) September 6, 2017
But I’m not going down that road this time, for a couple reasons.
First, diving back into the same argument over and over is just…exhausting. Second, this instance seems a little different than some of the others.
Harvick’s car has been so fast over the last couple races, it seems hard to believe a dented rear window could have contributed that much speed. Did it help? Probably. Was it the reason he won? Admittedly I have a lack of technical knowledge here, but I would argue no.
Same goes for the rocker arm panel extension. Was having it made out of steel instead of aluminum why Harvick won? Seems highly unlikely.
Still, for the sake of being consistent with my own stance (illegal cars should not win!), I guess NASCAR should probably have taken the victory away.
But…ugh. I just can’t get fired up about this one. In this case, stripping the win would have felt like sending someone to jail for a broken tail light.
I suppose NASCAR had to do something, and the something is better than nothing, but maybe it should come down to either doing nothing or taking away everything.
Otherwise, it feels half-assed, and I’m not sure how outraged we’re all supposed to be here.
Sigh. I’ve come to really hate weeks like these.
Well, darn, what does that do to this Sunday……He’s so good at Phoenix, but………….now I don’t have any faith……..
On top of all what you said, I was confused at losing 7 playoff points and 20 overall points… Nascar.. pleae…
Great thoughts Jeff. Here is who gets the proverbially kick to the nuts. The casual fan. I’d venture to guess that 80 percent of the comments I saw on reddit and various tweets were “he passed pre and post-race inspection. Rodney to me gave a convincing comment on SiriusXM yesterday. Shit breaks. I understand it is very difficult to determine intent however when you have a crew member running his hands across the back of Chase Elliot’s spoiler, or a crew member body checking the side of a car you have intent.
I suppose we will really see how SHR feels about this ruling once Kevin voices his opinion about it. Been a fan of his since 2006 and this that I can remember is the first time his team has been hit with such a big penalty.
What stinks again goes back to the casual fan. They’ll see his win last week as being tainted and that he is a cheater. Bothers me quite a bit.
I don’t understand. Weren’t the rules for side skirts changed this year? Aren’t the skirts supposed to be composite like the Xfinity series bodies? The practice broadcasts leading up to the Daytona 500 said this repeatedly. This portion of the penalty needs to be explained. Also, Harvick was stomping the field long before the brace failed. That’s a harsh penalty for a failed part that looked a little weird and most likely did not help that car. It didn’t need any help.
I don’t understand. Weren’t the rules for side skirts changed this year? Aren’t the skirts supposed to be composite like the Xfinity series bodies? The practice broadcasts leading up to the Daytona 500 said this repeatedly. This portion of the penalty needs to be explained. Also, Harvick was stomping the field long before the brace failed. That’s a harsh penalty for a failed part that looked a little weird and most likely did not help that car. It didn’t need any help.
Nascar punishes the few but most get away with tape on spoilers, a pillar, rear skew this is all to make an example so the rest don’t try this. Anyone else notice empty grandstands and low viewers?
I agree with you that NASCAR is their worst enemy. Take the WIN away! This is how we all live life. Your caught doing something wrong in life, what you accomplished is taken away from you. NASCAR and this week to week as they feel fairyland rules are and have been diminishing the sports integrity for the last ten years. This isn’t rocket science. Please NASCAR wake up your killing your own fan base at an alarming rate.
PS: I am a through and through dedicated Harvick Fan, being that I am from Bakersfield and used to race with him from the Mesa Marin days and Southwest Tour.
The diehard fan has become so burned out on the constant changing of multiple rules every year that they are just walking away from the sport. NASCAR fans are very irritated with the management of their sport.
#webeilevewewillwin
I agree that NASCAR constantly changing the rules is driving away fans in droves! It is so irritating when your driver gets a penalty for stupid stuff like a loose lug nut. It is hurting NASCAR and the sponsors!
That sucks, just as I was hopeful with NASCAR this happens. And now i get a goose egg on Jeff’s fantasy league.
Interesting. First, do we know the brace failed or was it designed to fail? My guess is that something so blatantly obvious would point to a part failure. That’s on the team, and for safety reasons, you can’t allow teams to have parts that aren’t right and prone to fail. But then again- pit guns….. I rest my case.
Anyway, “encumbered” or whatever the term is these days is kind of goofy. Take away the “W”, but if you do, it is kind of hollow. The team celebrated, the champagne was sprayed, the trophy was hoisted. You can’t get that back. So, yeah…… I get why they get to keep the “W”.
The problem NASCAR has, and so do other sports, like the Olympics, cycling, etc, is that when infractions occur, they are found after the fact. There is no stoppage of plays, official reviews of tape, and rulings made on “the field of play”. So, we have this imperfect way of dealing with the past, as it were, when a team or driver has been found on the wrong side of the rule book.
I don’t know how you can “fix” that. It is distasteful, but it is what it is.
If the car passes post race tech at the track should the win count?
When taken back to R&D should it be a different penalty?
Would we care if this was the 2nd place car taken back to R&D?
Here’s a few problems with why it matters and the argument stands here. One, steel is much heavier than aluminum. Remember, this is a sport that with much older, less “spec heavy” requirements, where the slightest change would yield only minimal results – Waltrip stuffed BBs into his car. So yes, a few ounces here and there matters, but even more so now, with such touchy cars. Specifically, WHERE matters too.
Remember, these cars are so temperamental to the slightest changes, that Chase’s team was willing to put a… what… 1/2″ wide piece of tape onto the spoiler to change it 1/32″ of an inch.
While I couldn’t get all science-y about the “dented windshield”, it would change how the air flows around the car significantly, and pushing downforce, because instead of riding smooth, up and over, curling around the sides, it curls around and has a “nook” to accelerate the car. Reducing RPMs required to go the same speed, or conversely going faster with equal RPMs. Further, it would reduce the flow/direction of air coming off the back, and make it harder to PASS him.
Chad Knaus changed the angle of Jimmie’s rear window, he got a massive penalty (though, to be fair, he was “caught” a lot before – but not really “caught” because he played in the gray, or played where NASCAR didn’t specifically dictate something). NASCAR, when they examined it, found a significant difference, with the slightest of changes.
As I’ve often complained about, sponsor dollar drives it. The very first NASCAR race, the win was taken away, as was the purse and the record books. Now, I could understand the initial change, when France wanted fans to leave the track knowing who got a win – but let’s keep up with the times, shall we? It’s not like there’s an inundation of violations and failures we know about an hour post race. There’s no reason a winner can’t be stricken.
It’s especially irritating, not for the second place guy – but the 15th, 22nd place guys, with legit cars, who get a boost all moving up a purse spot. The small teams are taking a bigger penalty than Harvick or any other driver who cheats and wins.
Harvick literally has nothing to lose by attempting to see how much can pass inspection now. He has the first “real” win, non-encumbered and he’s already in. So, start throwing the kitchen sink, knowing that you can lose a million points, you are going to race for the Championship anyway, and you’ll get data that will help you in the fall – caught or not.
I should also add – that just like we saw with MWR – Harvick’s cheating not only benefits him and what he can get away with now, but thanks to superteams, will also benefit all his teammates (and, if such an agreement, any engine builders if they play in the gray for engines, thus anyone running the same engine).
So quite literally, with such a paltry loss, no cash loss and no stat loss, the point loss is worth it for someone locked in, to get all their friends in too.
I think that if you have to cheat to win, your not much of a driver. NASCAR is guilty of changing the rules to punish some and benefit others. It depends on what your last name is. I love NASCAR but I am really disappointed in the sport it has become.
It’s the @WWE on wheels, do as they want & let the chips & fans fall where they might. Rules, Wins, Opinions don’t matter we are @Nascar
The rule makers in every sport are taking away the entertainment factor. NASCAR is no different. NASCAR has to work harder because it has no built in local following like the NFL. They simply have forgotten the average fan grew up on Sat night circle track racing. This has all gotten out of hand but I do see a way back. Use some of the 1 1/2 mile tracks as an experiment and run them as you would Sat night events. I’d rather watch that then a 3 hr parade.
The rules that are in place now are just fine! He won the race but with consequences. NASCAR should get better at inspecting and maybe should have found the problem before the race. If you pass pre-race inspection, no win should ever be taken away. I hate Kevin Harvick by the way……… LOL
Just hope nascar keeps this penalty the same for all season ,now everyone knows the limits.
Maybe you experiencing a touch of what is problem, or at least a part of it with Nascar today. Its just.. well, tedious. Hard to get worked up for or against anything.
We know that they did those things for a reason. They didn’t have any aluminum wasn’t why they used steel. And it wasn’t a coincidence that the winning car was the only SHR car that had a brace break, at just the right spot btw.
But its just another day in Nascar, ho hum.
Get rid of post race inspection. Problem solved. Clearly there are things being overlooked or not done as thouroughly as they should be in pre race inspection. Catch these issues before the race even starts and we arent here talking about whether or not a win should be taken away.
There is a room where NASCAR officials meet to determine punishments for rule violations. In that room, there needs to be a huge sign that says…
WE ARE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS
OUR DRIVERS ARE OUR PRIMARY ACTORS
FANS HATE FOR US TO DISPARAGE THESE ACTORS
KEEP THIS IN MIND AS WE HAND OUT PENALTIES
I’m a doubting Thomas. I believe the brace was secured in a way to fail. These guys have come up with all kinds of tricks over the year. Remember when RP couldn’t keep the roof of his 1968 Plymouth attached to the windshield? Just looking at the backlight on Harvick’s car I would think if the air caved the window then air went right down to spoiler giving more downforce in the turns. Just think of this. In all of the races over the years with all of those cars we all of the sudden have a brace fail. Nah, it was on purpose.
The rule book is clear as night and day on this one. No gray area here.
As far as the steel versus alu,inun goes a stick with a magnet would have caught that in pre-race inspection. Have to wonder why pre-race inspections take so long when it appears they miss little stuff like this.
This taking the car back to the r and d center is non-sense and a fan turn off. If the car passes pre-race and post race inspection at the track that should do it. Period. When they pass a car in pre-race inspection they are saying the car is legal to race aren’t they?
I agree with the contribution by Mark Long. “WE ARE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS” etc. ….. I have no horse in the race… I just like to see a good race. However…….. there is something almost “Smokey Yunick” about the #4 situation and I like it. Relax NASCAR and go along for the ride.
Betty Coleman, I like the way you think. I wish every car had a “Smokey Yunick” type and a Dale SR, Cale Yarborough or Junior Johnson driving. That’s what sold the sport to TV in the beginning. Todays cars are very safe and very fast but the stupidity of the penalties and what they cost a team is ludicrous. And now NASCAR is really screwing it up with one size fits all wheel guns. Good Lord make it stop, somebody please make it stop.
Blah, Blah, Blah…my wish, my only wish is, NASCAR goes full guns on one manufacturer, they damn well better show the same set of oversight and punishment on the others. So far, to my memory, which is very good, they have not! Rules are no subjective or discretionary! With NASCAR they are! NASCAR prides itself on parity, with handing out the “penalties” they are far from the parity distributors! This is what many fans are upset about!
NASCAR IS THE MESSING THINGS UP YOU DONT PUT THE SAME PLENTY ON ALL YOU WANT SOME TO WIN N WHEN THEY START CRYING BECAUSE THEY COME IN SECOND AS IN JOE GIBBS GUYS THEN U START LOOKING FOR WHAT WRONG WITH THE PERSON THAT WON BUT AS LONG AS GIBBS BABIES WIN ALL IS WELL WITH NASCAR U NEED TO LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING THE STORT OF NASCAR ITS GOING TO BE A SPORT IN THE PASS IF SOMETHING NOTTTT DONE LOOK AT THE SEATS THAT ARE NOT FILLED N THE TV RATINGS PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF THE BULL …. THAT GOING ON WAKE UP NASCAR WE LOVE THE SPORT BUT GET REAL DONT LET THIS N IM A HARVICK FAN ALONG WITH A FEW OTHER PLEASE DOOO SOMETHING NOW DONT WAIT N QUIT CHANGING THE RULES IN EVERY RACE THANKS FOR NOTHING NASCAR IS DOWN FOR THE COUNT Daisy Griffith at
As far as I’m concerned an illegal car is an illegal car and if your car is illegal you should not win the race and I don’t care when they find it whether it’s on the track at R&D if they find it you should lose the win I’m a Ford man not exactly a Kevin Harvick fan but I believe what he did was wrong what his team did was wrong and you should not win.